This is a really excellent analysis. I feel differently about the messages that are bouncing around in my (progressive, educated, upper middle class) algorithm on parental joy, though. I want it to be both/and, not either/or. Because I do feel like many people have opted out of childbearing/raising when they may not have opted out before, & not just because of increased acceptability of being childfree by choice or even having a choice at all. I was the first one in my group of friends to become a mom (at age 29). More of my close friends have stayed childfree by choice than become parents. My sister is also not a parent. I 100%, no question, respect their choices. But when I talk to them about their decisions, all of them have cited the resources involved in being a parent these days--time, money, energy. All of them say it seems really challenging. And of course, parenting is super challenging! But it is also the absolute greatest joy in my life. I do worry that people who have been raised to be conscientious & careful (rule followers, high achievers, etc.) might hear the downsides louder than the upsides. ESPECIALLY given that there is now a plainly obvious pronatalist movement coming from the right. If a family has 5+ kids, you can pretty much guess at their politics, which is pretty insane. It doesn't surprise me that the divisions we have politically are now even manifesting in one's choices to have children. In a lot of ways I feel like it is uncool to talk about the joy online. It feels less inclusive--which I think is so huge right now if you are a progressive person operating in an online space. Like, 'I love being a mom! Also it is OK to not be a mom, & I don't mean to be insensitive to anyone with fertility struggles, & also I am more than a mom!' So I guess what I am trying to express is that I hope that *everyone who thinks they might want to become a parent hears the good & the bad, & that *everyone's choices are respected, whatever that may be. Informed decisions & support for the choice, either way.
No I absolutely hear you re rule followers/high achievers. It's funny - I'd classify myself in that group (I was also the first in my peer group to have a kid) but because there were far fewer cultural narratives about the hardships of motherhood, I went into motherhood very much with a "I'm gonna crush this" mindset, which . . . . was awful lol. I really think my PPD was part biological and partly to do with my own lack of access to narratives that spoke to the very granular difficulties of motherhood, you know?
I went into it with that same mindset. I’m gonna freaking nail this thing. My parenting skills will be tip top. I cannot believe how naive I was. Cue the most humbling difficult decade of my life.
I LOVED this conversation. Just listened to the pronatalism episode and then this came through my inbox, what a delight. Also What Are Children For has been haunting and bothering me, and you both perfectly captured why.
Sara, my favorite part of Momfluenced was when you talked about trying to take a walk in the yard after having a kid. I don’t think we need more maternal joy stories, I think we need more of the PPD stories- it feels SO isolating at the time and feeling seen is incredible even if it’s years later. I have kid free friends and friends with kids, friends in same sex marriages, friends in heterosexual marriages, and I get so incredibly frustrated by all the drama over other people’s life choices. No one is taking away the right to have 9 babies, but the right IS promoting forced birth. Thank you for this incredible interview! Your work is much appreciated.
I remember a similar moment with my mom where I couldn’t get us out the door to take a walk about 2 weeks postpartum with my oldest in mid-January 2017. I finally made it literally 3 hours after I had set out to accomplish this seemingly small goal. Your work has helped me to feel seen repeatedly over the last 2 years. ❤️
Elizabeth and I both loved that scene- I remember discussing it when I was reading Momfluenced. I agree with Elizabeth that we need more of those PPD/PPA stories because it is so isolating, and once you talk to your mom friends you realize that we all have had similar experiences (especially in my circles where anxiety/ADHD tends to be a thing- I have it and my best friend at work does too). The intrusive thoughts scared me so much, and I started thinking I was maybe going to have a panic attack in the middle of the night when I hadn’t slept properly and felt so overwhelmed (my husband was working at night a month into her life, and nighttime was so hard for me).
I also have friends I am close to who are single, married but child free, married but in same sex marriages so their options for how to grow their family are costly, and married with kids.
I don’t think that because I chose to be married and have a child that means that the way I live my life is the way that others have to choose to live. All my friends have made valid choices for themselves and what they want. We all need to be advocates for everyone’s right to choose what kind of life they desire (whether that includes marriage and kids or not).
Thank you for your work Sara! I am a huge fan of your writing, and I appreciate the time you put into all of your content. It really resonates for me.
This was super interesting to read - as it's not what I got from What Are Children For - at all. But then I mainly dwelled on the chapter on the history of motherhood ambivalence literature, which I was woefully under-learned about! Great letter anyway, so much pause for thought.
To be fair, I haven't read it - just the New Yorker coverage. I know lots of people who found something to like in it! And that chapters DOES sound super interesting.
Loved this interview! Just one small correction, the New Yorker writer’s name is Jay Caspian Kang, not King (he is Korean American)—you have it misspelled in a couple spots.
This is a really excellent analysis. I feel differently about the messages that are bouncing around in my (progressive, educated, upper middle class) algorithm on parental joy, though. I want it to be both/and, not either/or. Because I do feel like many people have opted out of childbearing/raising when they may not have opted out before, & not just because of increased acceptability of being childfree by choice or even having a choice at all. I was the first one in my group of friends to become a mom (at age 29). More of my close friends have stayed childfree by choice than become parents. My sister is also not a parent. I 100%, no question, respect their choices. But when I talk to them about their decisions, all of them have cited the resources involved in being a parent these days--time, money, energy. All of them say it seems really challenging. And of course, parenting is super challenging! But it is also the absolute greatest joy in my life. I do worry that people who have been raised to be conscientious & careful (rule followers, high achievers, etc.) might hear the downsides louder than the upsides. ESPECIALLY given that there is now a plainly obvious pronatalist movement coming from the right. If a family has 5+ kids, you can pretty much guess at their politics, which is pretty insane. It doesn't surprise me that the divisions we have politically are now even manifesting in one's choices to have children. In a lot of ways I feel like it is uncool to talk about the joy online. It feels less inclusive--which I think is so huge right now if you are a progressive person operating in an online space. Like, 'I love being a mom! Also it is OK to not be a mom, & I don't mean to be insensitive to anyone with fertility struggles, & also I am more than a mom!' So I guess what I am trying to express is that I hope that *everyone who thinks they might want to become a parent hears the good & the bad, & that *everyone's choices are respected, whatever that may be. Informed decisions & support for the choice, either way.
No I absolutely hear you re rule followers/high achievers. It's funny - I'd classify myself in that group (I was also the first in my peer group to have a kid) but because there were far fewer cultural narratives about the hardships of motherhood, I went into motherhood very much with a "I'm gonna crush this" mindset, which . . . . was awful lol. I really think my PPD was part biological and partly to do with my own lack of access to narratives that spoke to the very granular difficulties of motherhood, you know?
I went into it with that same mindset. I’m gonna freaking nail this thing. My parenting skills will be tip top. I cannot believe how naive I was. Cue the most humbling difficult decade of my life.
I LOVED this conversation. Just listened to the pronatalism episode and then this came through my inbox, what a delight. Also What Are Children For has been haunting and bothering me, and you both perfectly captured why.
Sara, my favorite part of Momfluenced was when you talked about trying to take a walk in the yard after having a kid. I don’t think we need more maternal joy stories, I think we need more of the PPD stories- it feels SO isolating at the time and feeling seen is incredible even if it’s years later. I have kid free friends and friends with kids, friends in same sex marriages, friends in heterosexual marriages, and I get so incredibly frustrated by all the drama over other people’s life choices. No one is taking away the right to have 9 babies, but the right IS promoting forced birth. Thank you for this incredible interview! Your work is much appreciated.
Oh my gosh Elizabeth, this note really made my day. Writing that chapter was certainly an exercise in vulnerability so I'm really glad it resonated ❤️
I remember a similar moment with my mom where I couldn’t get us out the door to take a walk about 2 weeks postpartum with my oldest in mid-January 2017. I finally made it literally 3 hours after I had set out to accomplish this seemingly small goal. Your work has helped me to feel seen repeatedly over the last 2 years. ❤️
Elizabeth and I both loved that scene- I remember discussing it when I was reading Momfluenced. I agree with Elizabeth that we need more of those PPD/PPA stories because it is so isolating, and once you talk to your mom friends you realize that we all have had similar experiences (especially in my circles where anxiety/ADHD tends to be a thing- I have it and my best friend at work does too). The intrusive thoughts scared me so much, and I started thinking I was maybe going to have a panic attack in the middle of the night when I hadn’t slept properly and felt so overwhelmed (my husband was working at night a month into her life, and nighttime was so hard for me).
I also have friends I am close to who are single, married but child free, married but in same sex marriages so their options for how to grow their family are costly, and married with kids.
I don’t think that because I chose to be married and have a child that means that the way I live my life is the way that others have to choose to live. All my friends have made valid choices for themselves and what they want. We all need to be advocates for everyone’s right to choose what kind of life they desire (whether that includes marriage and kids or not).
Thank you for your work Sara! I am a huge fan of your writing, and I appreciate the time you put into all of your content. It really resonates for me.
This was super interesting to read - as it's not what I got from What Are Children For - at all. But then I mainly dwelled on the chapter on the history of motherhood ambivalence literature, which I was woefully under-learned about! Great letter anyway, so much pause for thought.
To be fair, I haven't read it - just the New Yorker coverage. I know lots of people who found something to like in it! And that chapters DOES sound super interesting.
I want to know why all of Ayla Stewart's family were facing away from the camera. Even the baby, which gave me kind of Twilight Zone vibes.
Loved this interview! Just one small correction, the New Yorker writer’s name is Jay Caspian Kang, not King (he is Korean American)—you have it misspelled in a couple spots.
oh SHOOT - fixing now - thank you so much!