"Working from your hospital bed is not a flex"

Emily Lynn Paulson on coercive control, "retiring husbands," and MLMs

Ever since I learned the origin story of the guy who founded Young Living (listen to season 1 of The Dream for more! It’s fucked up!), I was hooked on all things MLM. MLMs tap into so many of my research interests: gender, marketing, identity, systemic failure of mothers, the cult of productivity, wellness, S C A M S.

Emily Lynn Paulson is an author, speaker, and founder of the Sober Mom Squad (she also provided some excellent insight to my piece on The Great Golden Dildo). I am a huge fan of Emily’s ability to tell vulnerable, human stories and her new book, Hey Hun: Sales, Sisterhood, Supremacy, and the other Lies Behind Multi-level Marketing is a must-read for anyone interested in cultishness, “women’s work,” anyone who’s been impacted by MLMs, or anyone like me, who loves messes and never turns down a little tea.

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Sara: In your book, you note that 99.7% of people who join MLMs either break even or lose money. But you made significant money in direct sales. And while you do a clear job in the book of showing how much of that income was spent to sustain your MLM-contingent lifestyle (parties, trips, expensive products, gifts for your team, etc), is there any part of you that’s worried someone will pick up your book and, and say to themselves, Well, Emily did it. So it’s possible.

Emily: Let’s be clear about what you need to make it in an MLM. Do you have a big, wealthy network? Did you get in early enough? Do you come from money? I had two people on my entire team of roughly 3,000 people over the course of several years who maybe made $36,000.00 - $40,000.00 annually in take-home revenue. And even that didn’t last and they ending up leaving. This is very short-term success. So yes, is it possible to “succeed?” Sure. Is winning the lottery possible? Sure. But at what cost? How many people have to lose money in order for you to make money? That doesn’t feel like “success” to me.

Sara: To be clear, your paycheck was a direct result of other people’s money loss, right?

Emily: Yes. Once someone joins the company, it's pay to play. So the money that people spend to buy their starter kids, a percentage of that money goes directly to their upline [editorial note – see this glossary for explanation on any unfamiliar MLM terminology], and another percent goes to that person’s upline, and on and on up the ladder until the money funnels back into the company. So from the jump, you’re operating from a loss.

Sara: Why did you choose the MLM you ended up devoting several years to? [Note: In Emily’s book, she uses a fake name for her MLM for reasons which we’ll get into later in the interview]

Emily: As I describe in the book, I really didn’t know what MLMs were, but I had “joined” a few along the way. I bought some sort of cleanse or whatever from a lady selling AdvoCare, and she signed me up as a distributor because doing so gave me a discount, and then I was immediately on a bunch of mailing lists. The same thing happened with essential oils. I was like, Sure, these oils smell good, and all of a sudden I was in this oily mama group. There was a lot of bait and switch where I didn't intentionally join to be a distributor but I also didn't understand that that's what I was doing. I was just buying shit, right? There was really nothing about my particular MLM that drew me in – it was just one night of friendship, wine, and the hope of potential success. It really had nothing to do with the specific company.

Sara: You write eloquently about mothers’ desire for escape. From childcare, from domestic labor, from being viewed as only caretakers. Why are MLMs particularly attractive for mothers whose work is centered in the home?

Emily: Mothers stay home for a variety of reasons. Maybe you stay home because the cost of childcare is too high even if this means you miss a job you loved. Or you stay home because you think that that's the best choice for your kid. Or maybe you don’t want to stay home but you’re forced into it because you lost your job. No matter what your situation is though, there’s a good chance you’re feeling some sort of lack. And MLMs speak to this lack by suggesting you can be “the best mom” (because the “best mom” is a mom who’s home with her kids), but you can also be a boss babe during your supposedly “free” time. I had been home for years before joining my MLM, and don’t think I was necessarily conscious of how the MLM was activating some of my own pain points. But I used to feel a real tug when no one asked me about my work at high school reunions or whatever. It was always just “How are your kids?”

Sara: It’s easy for a mother whose work is based in the home to feel sort of disappeared by our culture. And aspiring momfluencers are often met with similarly grim success rates. In her book, scholar Brooke Erin Duffy estimated that 9% of influencers make enough money to live on, and even for that 9%, so much is required both professionally and personally. But the promise of balance is similar to the promise of balance MLMs offer.

Emily: When you're in an MLM, you’re explicitly encouraged to mimic influencer culture in order to convince others to join. And I also have a lot to say about putting your kids on social media stages against their will and you know, this is something that I did! And now I see it so differently, and thankfully, my kids were old enough to be like, Don't post my photos. I don't want to be part of that. But babies have no choice, and when you’re in an MLM and you have kids, you really are encouraged to turn your children into content. And the pressure only increases if you start making money.

Sara: Can you talk a little bit about how the prosperity gospel, the idealization of the nuclear family, and how the narrative of toxic positivity connects to whiteness and white privilege?

Emily: White privilege is built into toxic positivity because toxic positivity assumes that all people are starting with a similar toolbox and entirely ignores any systemic issues or inequities. Toxic positivity operates by ignoring socioeconomic factors, ignoring the specificity of marginalized identities, and by ignoring people’s systemic privileges. I mentioned earlier that in order to succeed in an MLM, which again, I can’t emphasize enough, is very, very rare, you need a huge network, you need a certain level of financial security, you need a smart phone, you need a credit card. Toxic positivity also assumes we live in a meritocracy where all work is rewarded equally, and it assumes all people are part of heteronormative nuclear Christian families. Christianity is very much woven into MLM culture. Amway (one of the first MLMs), was started by two devout evangelical Calvinists, so the Christian religion was baked into the selling model. Every company has modeled itself against Amway, so Christianity runs through many MLM organizations whether explicitly or implicitly. Even #blessed, which is thrown around in MLM speak ad nauseam implies “blessed by god.” 

Sara: In the book, you write about a friend who joined your team. During the party to celebrate your “free” car, your friend opened up about feeling really unsure about continuing in the MLM, and you fed her lines about her potential and her ability to succeed despite knowing deep down (I think) that she wasn’t actually set up for success for a variety of reasons outside of her control. I think it speaks to the cult-like culture of MLMs that you weren’t able to view her as a friend first and foremost and counsel her to get out, right? 

Emily: From the very beginning, you're really taught to not only ignore your intuition in MLMs, but also told that posting and selling and recruiting your friends and family will feel weird. They explicitly communicate that cold-messaging someone you haven’t talked to in years will feel gross. But you’re also explicitly taught that you should do whatever it takes no matter what to succeed. And back then, I had just won that “free” car, I was doing everything my upline told me to do. I was “investing in my business,” and all this “success” was coming to me. And in a situation like mine, it was hard to believe that anything else could be true. Especially when you are constantly praised for your actions, congratulated on your success, and everyone around you seems to be striving to catch up to you. I mean, coercive control is very intoxicating, especially when you're purposely ignoring any criticism from the outside. Because another thing you’re explicitly taught is to label family and friends who are concerned about your MLM involvement as “haters.” Or to view them as failures for not doing what you’re doing or “succeeding” the way you’re succeeding. And it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, like, I must be working hard since I’m succeeding and they must not be working hard since they’re not succeeding.

The power of the sunk cost fallacy also can’t be overstated, especially for folks who aren’t making significant money (or who are losing money). I was fully aware my friend had already invested so much time and money into the MLM, and I really wanted to see her get her investment back, and I kept telling myself that if she just does this, or just does that, it’ll work for her like it worked for me. The sunk cost fallacy doesn’t only apply to you, but to people in your downline, people you convinced to join. Like, I've spent so much time with this person. I put so many of my resources and even my money into this person. I was selling a dream I thought would come true for everybody.

Sara: Can you talk us through the BITE model?

Emily: Yes. So Steven Hassan has studied cults, and he’s experienced being in a cult, so he’s really in a unique position of expertise. He came up with the BITE acronym, which is the model for coercive control. Behavioral control, information control, thought control and emotional control. And these types of controls can be very small or they can be very big, and we all, at some point, experience types of coercive control.

A commercial on TV, for example, is an example of information control. But if you watch a commercial for some sort of cheeseburger and find yourself craving that cheeseburger, you still have a choice to buy the cheeseburger or not, right?  But in terms of behavior control, for example, if you’re prevented from eating or sleeping, that’s a really different thing. If you are kept so busy that you can't question a system, and if you are discouraged through information control from looking at external sources, that's a very dangerous form of information control. Thought control shows up in being told that questioning the status quo or listening to friends and family questioning your decisions is equivalent to being a “hater.” Or in being told that negative thoughts create negative outcomes. Or being told that God won’t love you if you leave or disagree. And then of course, emotional control is illustrated by losing friends or community when you leave a system or group. It’s really eye-opening to realize we all are victims of coercive control, but the way coercive control shows up in our lives can drastically vary in terms of severity.

Sara: Can you talk about “retirement” of husbands please? Because wow.

Emily: It’s so cringe, right? In an MLM, retiring your husband means they quit their job, because you are now making enough money that your husband (because it’s assumed we’re talking about heteronormative couples) doesn't have to work, which sounds great at first. But it’s understood that when the husband retires he simply joins you in spreading your MLM gospel. Sharing about the MLM on social media, attending MLM events, proselytizing the MLM. So it's not really that the husbands are no longer working, it's that they've joined you in working for the MLM, and this is another form of coercive control. By quitting their mainstream jobs or “retiring,” they are also losing 401Ks, they’re losing health insurance, and they’re losing an exit strategy. Now, both partners are fully reliant on the MLM and they’re more likely to be entirely controlled by the organization.

The push to “retire your husband” is most strong when you’re at the top, and there were numerous times I was asked why I hadn’t “retired my husband” yet. Like, It looks bad that your husband's still working. But not only did he love his job, he was clear eyed about the fact that we would have been screwed for retirement and healthcare if he had left his job. Screwed. If your partner is also coercively controlled by the MLM and your entire joint social network is wrapped up in the MLM, this “retirement of husbands” thing can be very intoxicating. And dangerous!

Sara: I’ve been guilty of assuming that all people in MLMs believe every part of an MLM’s message, and as you write in the book, you were often highly skeptical of your MLM messaging. You saw the crappy parties for what they were, you noted the cheap champagne, you scorned so many of the empty platitudes. So it was interesting to me that you saw through a lot of the bullshit as you were progressing through the MLM, but not enough to change your behavior or cut ties.  

Emily: There are so many people in MLMs with a similar mindset and a similar ability to see through some of the bullshit. But I think a huge reason MLMs hold so many conferences and retention events is to keep people hooked in spite of the bullshit. They hold huge concerts and create impressive spectacles with lights and fancy gowns, and really, this is all smoke and mirrors to distract people from the many, many red flags. And MLMs are also good at providing you rationale to stay. Like, I would often note red flags but say to myself, But I’m making money. No job is perfect. Nothing’s 100% good.

Sara: I completely understand how you were able to rationalize staying because you were making pretty significant money, but I still struggle to understand why people who are barely breaking even or actively losing money are able to ignore red flags?

Emily: It’s hope. You’ve probably seen this meme with the guy digging through hard rock with diamonds on the other side, right? And there’s a picture of another guy walking away from the rock. You are always told it’ll eventually happen for you if you just keep trying. The only way I can fail is by quitting. That’s a message delivered over and over again in MLMs.

And I can’t tell you how many people have told me they stayed in MLMs for the friendships, even if they weren’t making any money. Often, also, these are very much friendships based on proximity rather than true intimacy or interpersonal connection. You spend a lot of time with these people!

And even the fake busy work of posting on social media or whatever, it tricks you into believing you’re doing something productive. If quitting means losing friends, community, and also the hope of all the time and money you’ve put in so far, it’s not a particularly compelling alternative to staying.

Sara: The ability for MLMs to thrive is such a glaring condemnation of American systems. You write in the book that MLMs don’t tend to thrive in countries with robust social safety nets or with universal healthcare or subsidized childcare or paid family and parental leave.

Emily: Absolutely. I think it’s misguided to blame individuals for joining MLMs, because what choices do they really have? Especially for disenfranchised stay-at-home-moms. I can stay home and be miserable. Or there's this thing I could throw money at that might work and that could be fun, you know? What are the other options? MLMs are very much an American thing.

Sara: MLMs promise a full-time career AND the ability to stay home with your kids (which is a full-time endeavor!) And like, that’s patently impossible. Many parents whose work is centered in the home are already exhausted and counting the minutes until naptime or whatever, and then MLMs tell that exhausted mother that instead of doing whatever fills you back up during naptime, you can “run your own business.” You need childcare to run a full-time business!

Emily: They promise full-time income for part-time work or work squeezed into the “nooks and crannies” of your life. But where is this spare time springing from? Who has it? I cannot emphasize enough that MLMs require unpaid labor. So you’re doing the unpaid labor of MLM recruitment and sales on top of the unpaid labor of mothering. And just hoping that something comes out of it. It’s cruel. And of course, it happens for mothers who work outside the home as well. MLMs promise those mothers that they can leave their jobs to “spend more time with their kids” and join an MLM. They call quitting real jobs and joining MLMs an “exit strategy,” and it just makes me want to throw up when I think of all the times I told mothers “this could be an amazing exit strategy that allows you to spend more time with your kids at home.”

Sara: This whole premise assumes that there is one type of mother, right? Maybe some people don't want to stay home with their kids, you know? And maybe some people do. And who is deciding what the proper standard of time to spend with kids even is?! There are just so many assumptions of ideal motherhood baked into the MLM sales pitch.

Emily: Yes – the goal to “spend more time with your kids” is always assumed. You can spend more quality time with your kids. You go on vacation with your family. But MLMs don’t provide you more time – they rob you of it. Sure, maybe you take your kids along with you to an MLM convention in Florida or whatever, but you’ll end up posting photos on social media and attending events and networking instead of playing in the pool with your kids. Like, folks post photos of themselves on their phones in the hospital after giving birth with captions about having the flexibility to “build their businesses” thanks to MLMs. But that’s not freedom. Working from one’s hospital bed is not a flex.

Sara: They do promise quite a bit of time, don’t they? Like, Because of an MLM, you’ll have more time with your kids, more time to build your business, more time to travel. They conspicuously never promise you time to do nothing. Or time for yourself. Switching gears! Remind me which years you spent in the MLM?

Emily: 2014-2021.

Sara: So you were in your MLM during a really interesting transition; you joined prior to influencer culture being the financial and culture giant it is today. Can you talk about how your MLM specifically instructed folks to model their social media accounts on influencer accounts?

Emily: Back when I first joined, Facebook was where MLMs thrived. Everyone was selling their stuff on Facebook, and at first, Facebook didn’t care. And because selling stuff on social media was a relatively new concept at the time, it was actually really effective. Facebook eventually got smart and started suppressing those kinds of posts, simply because they weren’t making any profit from it. So at the beginning, I could sell stuff on Facebook and get a ton of engagement, and eventually, I’d post something and no one would see it. My MLM started noticing that Instagram was taking off around 2016 or 2017, and they held Instagram trainings teaching people to explicitly mimic influencer culture. It was no longer simply about sharing the products, it was about sharing your life. Share your family photos, share your lifestyle photos, and post every day so people are always seeing you and eventually they’ll want to follow you because they want more of your personal story. They would send us “influencer boxes” of stuff that only consultants were buying, which was ridiculous, but they’d send instructions on how to pose, which hashtags to use, but we did all of this to not only sell products, but to actively recruit more consultants.

Sara: And this is even more unpaid labor, right? Because at least influencers make money from brand deals and spon-con and affiliate links.

Emily: They’re getting paid for a job. When you’re in an MLM and posting on social media, you do not get paid. And also, an influencer will post about a coffee brand they like, share a link, and that’s it. They’re not going to share 75 Instagram stories about that coffee brand, or tell you that coffee brand changed their life, or spam you with texts and emails and follow-up texts and emails about the coffee company. It’s not the same.

Sara: The most financially successful momfluencers are more likely to have white privilege, financial privilege, and adhere to western beauty standards. They’re more likely to be thin, non-disabled, they’re more likely to be cishet. I’m assuming having access to similar privilege also makes it more likely to succeed in an MLM?

Emily: Absolutely. I mean, two people can go to the same school, but if one of them gets a ride and has lunch money, they will have a different experience at that school than someone who has to walk 10 miles and doesn't have any money and has to stay after school to get tutoring help or whatever. And those set up for success in MLMs are people who come from money, people who have spouses that work, and people who look like all the women already at the top of the pyramid.

Sara: You write about how MLMs are starting to feature more women of color in their promotional material, but that their so-called “diversity” outreach is hollow.

Emily: Right, these companies don’t carry diverse ranges of makeup shades, for example, and they don’t sell haircare products made specifically for Black hair. If the products don't even tailor to a diverse range of humans, why would the opportunity? The interesting thing is that because MLMs are deeply racist in their marketing and recruiting efforts, it has the unintended positive effect of protecting a lot of marginalized people from getting involved.

This isn’t to say that people of color and other marginalized people aren’t impacted. There’s a documentary which details how Herbalife specifically targeted Latino people. And of course, MLMs will cause more harm to people already systemically marginalized.

Sara: Do you think including women of color in their promotional materials is really just MLMs trying to target a certain type of “nice” white lady who likes to think of herself as progressive?

Emily: Yeah, like, I'm doing something good by joining this “diverse” organization. I’m being a good ally by joining this MLM. I can pat myself on the back and be happy about my status as a “good person.”

Sara: You chart your experience with alcoholism and sobriety through the book. Is it safe to say that wine culture is a big part of all MLMs?

Emily: The irony is that a lot of MLMs have Mormon roots. So some of these companies are officially anti-alcohol despite very much incorporating alcohol culture in sales and recruitment. And I think both wine mommy culture and MLM culture point to women attempting to fix a similar problem. Like, Drinking will allow me to check out for a few hours. It’ll provide escape from my mundane day. It’ll help me connect to people. MLMs promise those same things. And if you find yourself using booze as a coping mechanism, MLMs will likely exacerbate that problem, which absolutely happened for me. You’re meeting over drinks with people, you’re having drinks at functions, you’re celebrating with drinks. A whole lot of “business” is done over drinks. And, of course, alcohol impacts inhibition, and you can’t really make informed decisions when you’re under the influence, right?

Sara: We’re not raised to prioritize spending time with friends as women, right? I mean, MLMs and “chatting about business over drinks” seems to give permission for women to socialize, and that socialization is only made acceptable because it’s done in the name of productivity and money-making.

Emily: Right, you will make time for “business trips” in a way you won’t for a simple trip with friends.

Sara: Would you say that the bulk of MLMs are capitalizing on patriarchal beauty standards? So many of them are hawking skincare and beauty products designed to make women look a certain way.

Emily: I think so. I know that MLMs capitalize on our current obsession with wellness or “clean-ness,” and even if you're in a company selling products that don’t specifically relate to beauty or wellness, you see clear adherence to western beauty standards at the conventions or retention events. Everyone looks the same. They have the same hair extensions. They have the same studded heels. At my old MLM, everyone would go on the same keto program or whatever prior to trips or conventions. [Sara’s editorial sidenote – see the weight loss surgery promoted by leadership at LuLaRoe in this doc].

So even if you’re part of an MLM that doesn’t specifically sell beauty products, the same group-think that makes it difficult to make individual decisions when you’re in an MLM definitely shows up in physical appearance.

Sara: And the bulk of MLMs are owned by men, correct?

Emily: They sure are! There’s just so much cognitive dissonance going on. I mean the sales pitch for joining an MLM is very much: Work for yourself! Don't work for the man! Death to corporate America! Your nine to five sucks! Work flexible hours! But when you join an MLM, you are working for a corporation. You are an unpaid contractor for a corporation. Not only might you never get paid, but you must pay to do the unpaid labor! And the vast majority of the CEOs and VPs are white men.

Sara: It’s so bleak when you consider that one of the central messages MLMs disseminate is female empowerment, right? But in fact, most people getting “empowered” are people who already had access to power. How has your thinking on empowerment changed since your experience?

Emily: I mean, for so long I equated success with making money. When I was making money at my MLM, I figured, I must be successful, right? But when you closely examine the cost of such success, it really forces you to redefine the word. I think much more critically about my life now. I clarify my priorities and ask myself what I truly want from life. I think true empowerment is the freedom to think for yourself and allow for the fact that you might be wrong in your thinking sometimes.  

Sara: What sort of systemic structural supports do you think would protect mothers specifically from falling prey to MLMs? How do you see MLMs operating in the future?

Emily: I think awareness is huge. There are so many more people speaking publicly about MLMs, so many more documentaries and podcasts. And there’s also so many more products commercially available. You don't really need to go to your friend’s MLM jewelry party because you can buy something nearly identical online. You don't really have to go to your friend’s makeup party, because you can go Sephora. That said, I don't think they will ever necessarily ever fully disappear because they’re backed by so many powerful players. I mean, every major Republican political campaign has received huge donations from the Direct Selling Organization, so Republicans will always support direct selling. So while I don’t think they’re as attractive from a consumer standpoint, I think people will continue to lose money.

Sara: Because so many join MLMs to find community and purpose, what do you think people can do on an individual level, to sort of nurture interpersonal connections and nurture a sense of self?

Emily: Oh, that’s hard. I mean, what could I have done instead of joining my MLM? I probably could have joined a meetup group for an activity I was interested in. I could’ve asked myself what I really needed or wanted specifically. You know, am I looking for a way to make money? Because if so, there's a heck of a lot of ways to do that that don't involve MLMs. Am I looking for some sort of external recognition or do I want to achieve something?

Sara: You used a pseudonym for your MLM in the book. Has the actual MLM reached out? Will this book become problematic for you personally?

Emily: That’s part of the reason I didn’t use the company name, but the other reason I didn’t is because my experience would’ve been identical regardless of which MLM I had joined. They are all the same. They prey on the same pain points and the same people. The financial structures are the same. I will say though, my MLM still has my name on their website as of a few months ago which . . .  is wild!

Sara: It is! Anything else you want to add?

Emily: I hope it’s crystal clear in the book that people who suffer due to MLMS are not to blame. It’s not your fault. It’s not your fault for wanting more from life and joining an organization you earnestly believe can give you whatever that “more” is for you. It’s not your fault for getting trapped.