Like, if I’m so busy cataloging my life online for other people, how present am I in my real life for the real people I'm actually supposed to be taking care of? I knew early on that my phone was an issue and that it was a problem because it was pulling me away from my family. I literally hid the phone from my children. Like it was a cigarette! And you know when you're hiding something? You kind of know, like, this is a problem. I didn't understand why. Now I do. Now I get what it was. But at the time, I just knew that this is not good. I don't want them to see it. I don't want them to see me with it or see my need for it.
I 100% relate to this. Back when I was a new mom of babies, I was terrified their innocent little sponge brains would be irremediably warped by seeing their beloved mother (who is supposed to be perfect) looking at a plastic/metal block instead of at their beautiful faces. And still today, as a mom of elementary school kids (plus a toddler), I’ll prop my phone on a barstool near the kitchen counter while I’m chopping broccoli to throw into the mac n’cheese or whatever, and covertly steal looks at my phone. Because I don’t want my kids to interpret my phone addiction as something about THEM and because I want to model “healthy” social media/phone habits (DO SUCH THINGS EXIST?!) And maybe because I’m ashamed that childcare bores me sometimes and I crave virtual distractions? I don’t know!
A photo of me looking at my phone as if it’s something I have complicated feelings about instead of a photo of me hiding my phone from my kids because I don’t have a photo like that!
Hence my first Let’s Discuss Thread.
Honestly, I’m pretty nervous about launching threads because I’m nervous about trying new things in general and because Motherhood with a capital M can be so polarizing for so many reasons. But I love the community we’ve built at In Pursuit of Clean Countertops, and you guys so frequently DM and email me brilliant, thought-provoking, helpful ideas, so maybe this could be great?
Let’s think of it an experiment for now, and if it’s fun and provides value, Let’s Discussion Threads will become another regular perk for paid subscribers.
For the next month, I’ll send Threads out to the whole list (free and paid), so we can figure out what works and what doesn’t together.
Guidelines for keeping this non-judgmental and fun (TWO THINGS HARD TO COME BY IN TERMS OF MOTHERHOOD)
Moms are burnt the fuck out from being told that we’re doing x, y, and z wrong. So no “shoulds” or mentions of the “best” way to be or do things.
Similarly, please avoid “right” versus “wrong” binaries.
I will delete any sort of troll-y nonsense.
Ok so tell me! Do you hide your phone from your kids (or anyone else for that matter)? Why? Why not? I’d love to know your thoughts.
First time commenter! Had to hop in here because I literally built my whole business (which I have closed) around the concept of balance with tech/phones/screens for the benefit of future generations. I folded after a decade of pushing the sisyphus boulder uphill. I was superrrrrr aware as someone who worked in tech/digital of where we were going. I personally was totally addicted and decided to leave it all and start championing for change, with my kids in mind. A decade ago people thought I was a total nutso. Happy that today "digital wellness" (bastardized and co-opted term) is mainstream that people think about it more now. But the guilt, stress, shame (just like cigarette smoking) is the worst. Also the brands using it as a marketing campaign thats really bullshit is also the worst. So I folded my cards and focused on my family because I am not sure balance IS possible while there is no regulation. Meaning, when profit is made off of triggering our dopamine, we literally can't help ourselves. So I opted out. BUTTTTTT I found some things that helped me and my usage AND my guilts. The best one was the realization that phones are tools and if I just TOLD my kids what I was doing on it - it made them aware that I wasn't passively consuming cat videos or hiding in Instagram. "I am on Amazon buying your soccer shoes" "Excuse me I am talking with all the moms on text about camp." "I'll be over here sending an email for work" "There's a podcast I will be listening to while I fold laundry". It took the mystique away and also started making me take a hard look at what I was spending my time doing. Really blows to say to the fam "i'll be stress scrolling the hellhole of doom-TWITTER-for the next hour". And surprisingly - they could say things back like "mom you are always super cranky after you've been on twitter."
Phones definitely interfere with connection in our family—my toddlers both used to hit it out of my hand. So now I have a flip phone, because I have ADD and the thing designed to be addictive is addictive to me.
But can we talk about the intersection with loneliness?? This pandemic was brutal for parents! I needed those frequent midday texts and even the articles that let me say “me too!”
My work involves a lot of “research” on Twitter so I find myself scrolling at breakfast before work and in the afternoon at the playground, but in all honesty I don’t feel that guilty. I’m my daughter’s sole financial provider and the only way I can balance also being as present as I want to be is to sometimes be balancing that with a little work on the side, otherwise I would have to work at night when she’s asleep and I guard that time for reading and other things non-electronic. When I thought about becoming a mother I always wanted to show her my work (maybe because it means a lot to me?) so I’m not really ashamed about my phone use in front of her. I can only imagine things will become immensely more complicated when she’s old enough for her own phone or social media…
I struggle with this too. My oldest is turning 11 next week and since I know that her no-phone years are limited, it's feeling especially important to start doing better with phone boundaries. I am not setting a good example by any stretch in terms of phone addiction. But, this is something I say in the abstract but have yet to actually start working on...
This is *so* relatable. I am in month 10 of breastfeeding my second, and I definitely find myself scrolling behind his head, thinking I'm hiding from him. The little sucker usually knows. It really cracks me up when he goes blindly shopping around with his free arm. He's got great aim and always swipes something inconvenient on my screen 😆.
I also find myself hiding from my partner. A regular example is when I go to fold laundry on the bed after the kids go down. My partner will be doing the dishes. Almost every night, instead of starting my task, I get caught up on my phone and just veg out. If I hear my partner coming, it wakes me from my trance and I immediately start back to my goal. It's like this guilty break I'm taking. He wouldn't care, but I care about being perceived as a slacker because I'm not contributing while he is working. Of course, he does the same thing in the kitchen...he will veg out and eat the rest of whatever was left from dinner, and he moves perpetually slow at cleanup anyway, so i'm not sure why I feel the need to hide!
Not about the phone, but about how kids make us see things differently. I grew up with the TV on as background noise, and carried that into my adult life. I often turned the TV on while I read the paper, if I was eating alone, etc. My husband was never a TV watcher as an adult, and we never has a TV in the bedroom. When my daughter was a toddler, I remember putting her in the exersaucer while the TV was on and I was at the dining room table reading the paper. I vaguely was aware of a "bounce bounce pause" noise and looked up. My daughter was playing happily in her exersaucer until she caught sight of the TV. She'd pause to watch it, snap out of it within 20 seconds and play until she was distracted again by the moving pictures and noise. I thought "she doesn't need the distraction and neither do I". Turned the TV off and never turned it on as background noise again. My kids got plenty of TV time, but it was all chosen, not passive. So I guess I 'hid' that you could have TV on all the time from my kids. (Also, my daughter promptly turned off the TV when the show she was watching was over, as opposed to remaining glued to the TV. I almost told her she could leave it on, and again, thought "she doesn't need it". She taught me two good lessons before age 3, lol).
Oh man, I definitely also made my life so much harder as a first time mom thinking I wasn’t allowed to look at my phone while breastfeeding or bottle feeding (both of which were a clusterfuck for unrelated reasons but maybe I could have been more relaxed about it if I had let myself off this one hook?).
I def lowered my standards by the second kid, to the point that sometimes during bedtime, when she wanted to stall, she would say “mama keep looking at your phone” bc it was giving her more time to play. 😂
SO. TL/DR, I am always working to find a middle ground on this, and generally failing. I do look for activities (swimming, gardening, etc) that force me to put the phone down to be present. They also DAILY see me idly scrolling when I suppose I could be more present? Idk.
I have a huge amount of guilt related to the presence of my phone. I’ve deleted social media, so that isn’t my issue. My biggest struggle is checking my work email/channels. During the early pandemic, I was working from home with a two year old and terrified that I wasn’t appearing to work hard enough so got into a habit of jumping on emails the second they came in. (My husband had to work in person from pretty early in) Now, my oldest is 4 and we also have a 16 month old, and our daycare/preschool shuts down classes for quarantine constantly (for good reason!) and I have to take leave from work where again I’m supposed to manage childcare while working… the obsessive email checking is still there, even though I resent myself for it and realize it’s a self-imposed absurdity to try and present myself as a fully present mother and employee.
I do and I also don’t. I want to be more present with the kids and for spaces of time I manage it, I’m generally happier. But I’m wondering if that’s a correlation doesn’t imply causation situation. That is to say, whatever is making me feel less in need of whichever stimulation I’m getting from my phone is also what’s enabling me to be more patient and relaxed and enjoy time with them. Or, say, have support of another adult (ex. weekly 25 hr phone-free Shabbes when my partner isn’t working for pay).
When I do have it out, it often morphs into something the toddler and I do together (FT family, watch home videos/look at photos on my camera roll).
While they’re so young (oldest is under 3) this status quo feels good for me-mostly. I still fantasize that I can just put down my phone and that it’ll be possible to keep from getting them smartphones (unless we can’t afford them) when they’re older, but I think that isn’t realistic. I’m trying to live in the world we have and not the one I want, because I’m worried if I don’t they won’t have practice interacting with these technologies, they’ll end up like their parents-with a phone addiction.
I absolutely hide the phone from my 11 month old for the same reason. I’m worried he’ll think I find the phone more interesting than him. And I want to model good behavior. He still nurses to sleep at night though, so for about 45 glorious minutes afterwards, I sneak the phone out and peruse the internet while he sleeps in my arms. I often will delay putting him in his crib just so I can have this precious baby cuddle/phone time. It’s the best!
First time commenter! Had to hop in here because I literally built my whole business (which I have closed) around the concept of balance with tech/phones/screens for the benefit of future generations. I folded after a decade of pushing the sisyphus boulder uphill. I was superrrrrr aware as someone who worked in tech/digital of where we were going. I personally was totally addicted and decided to leave it all and start championing for change, with my kids in mind. A decade ago people thought I was a total nutso. Happy that today "digital wellness" (bastardized and co-opted term) is mainstream that people think about it more now. But the guilt, stress, shame (just like cigarette smoking) is the worst. Also the brands using it as a marketing campaign thats really bullshit is also the worst. So I folded my cards and focused on my family because I am not sure balance IS possible while there is no regulation. Meaning, when profit is made off of triggering our dopamine, we literally can't help ourselves. So I opted out. BUTTTTTT I found some things that helped me and my usage AND my guilts. The best one was the realization that phones are tools and if I just TOLD my kids what I was doing on it - it made them aware that I wasn't passively consuming cat videos or hiding in Instagram. "I am on Amazon buying your soccer shoes" "Excuse me I am talking with all the moms on text about camp." "I'll be over here sending an email for work" "There's a podcast I will be listening to while I fold laundry". It took the mystique away and also started making me take a hard look at what I was spending my time doing. Really blows to say to the fam "i'll be stress scrolling the hellhole of doom-TWITTER-for the next hour". And surprisingly - they could say things back like "mom you are always super cranky after you've been on twitter."
Also - hi Sara - can't wait for your book!
Phones definitely interfere with connection in our family—my toddlers both used to hit it out of my hand. So now I have a flip phone, because I have ADD and the thing designed to be addictive is addictive to me.
But can we talk about the intersection with loneliness?? This pandemic was brutal for parents! I needed those frequent midday texts and even the articles that let me say “me too!”
My work involves a lot of “research” on Twitter so I find myself scrolling at breakfast before work and in the afternoon at the playground, but in all honesty I don’t feel that guilty. I’m my daughter’s sole financial provider and the only way I can balance also being as present as I want to be is to sometimes be balancing that with a little work on the side, otherwise I would have to work at night when she’s asleep and I guard that time for reading and other things non-electronic. When I thought about becoming a mother I always wanted to show her my work (maybe because it means a lot to me?) so I’m not really ashamed about my phone use in front of her. I can only imagine things will become immensely more complicated when she’s old enough for her own phone or social media…
I struggle with this too. My oldest is turning 11 next week and since I know that her no-phone years are limited, it's feeling especially important to start doing better with phone boundaries. I am not setting a good example by any stretch in terms of phone addiction. But, this is something I say in the abstract but have yet to actually start working on...
This is *so* relatable. I am in month 10 of breastfeeding my second, and I definitely find myself scrolling behind his head, thinking I'm hiding from him. The little sucker usually knows. It really cracks me up when he goes blindly shopping around with his free arm. He's got great aim and always swipes something inconvenient on my screen 😆.
I also find myself hiding from my partner. A regular example is when I go to fold laundry on the bed after the kids go down. My partner will be doing the dishes. Almost every night, instead of starting my task, I get caught up on my phone and just veg out. If I hear my partner coming, it wakes me from my trance and I immediately start back to my goal. It's like this guilty break I'm taking. He wouldn't care, but I care about being perceived as a slacker because I'm not contributing while he is working. Of course, he does the same thing in the kitchen...he will veg out and eat the rest of whatever was left from dinner, and he moves perpetually slow at cleanup anyway, so i'm not sure why I feel the need to hide!
Not about the phone, but about how kids make us see things differently. I grew up with the TV on as background noise, and carried that into my adult life. I often turned the TV on while I read the paper, if I was eating alone, etc. My husband was never a TV watcher as an adult, and we never has a TV in the bedroom. When my daughter was a toddler, I remember putting her in the exersaucer while the TV was on and I was at the dining room table reading the paper. I vaguely was aware of a "bounce bounce pause" noise and looked up. My daughter was playing happily in her exersaucer until she caught sight of the TV. She'd pause to watch it, snap out of it within 20 seconds and play until she was distracted again by the moving pictures and noise. I thought "she doesn't need the distraction and neither do I". Turned the TV off and never turned it on as background noise again. My kids got plenty of TV time, but it was all chosen, not passive. So I guess I 'hid' that you could have TV on all the time from my kids. (Also, my daughter promptly turned off the TV when the show she was watching was over, as opposed to remaining glued to the TV. I almost told her she could leave it on, and again, thought "she doesn't need it". She taught me two good lessons before age 3, lol).
Oh man, I definitely also made my life so much harder as a first time mom thinking I wasn’t allowed to look at my phone while breastfeeding or bottle feeding (both of which were a clusterfuck for unrelated reasons but maybe I could have been more relaxed about it if I had let myself off this one hook?).
I def lowered my standards by the second kid, to the point that sometimes during bedtime, when she wanted to stall, she would say “mama keep looking at your phone” bc it was giving her more time to play. 😂
SO. TL/DR, I am always working to find a middle ground on this, and generally failing. I do look for activities (swimming, gardening, etc) that force me to put the phone down to be present. They also DAILY see me idly scrolling when I suppose I could be more present? Idk.
I have a huge amount of guilt related to the presence of my phone. I’ve deleted social media, so that isn’t my issue. My biggest struggle is checking my work email/channels. During the early pandemic, I was working from home with a two year old and terrified that I wasn’t appearing to work hard enough so got into a habit of jumping on emails the second they came in. (My husband had to work in person from pretty early in) Now, my oldest is 4 and we also have a 16 month old, and our daycare/preschool shuts down classes for quarantine constantly (for good reason!) and I have to take leave from work where again I’m supposed to manage childcare while working… the obsessive email checking is still there, even though I resent myself for it and realize it’s a self-imposed absurdity to try and present myself as a fully present mother and employee.
I do and I also don’t. I want to be more present with the kids and for spaces of time I manage it, I’m generally happier. But I’m wondering if that’s a correlation doesn’t imply causation situation. That is to say, whatever is making me feel less in need of whichever stimulation I’m getting from my phone is also what’s enabling me to be more patient and relaxed and enjoy time with them. Or, say, have support of another adult (ex. weekly 25 hr phone-free Shabbes when my partner isn’t working for pay).
When I do have it out, it often morphs into something the toddler and I do together (FT family, watch home videos/look at photos on my camera roll).
While they’re so young (oldest is under 3) this status quo feels good for me-mostly. I still fantasize that I can just put down my phone and that it’ll be possible to keep from getting them smartphones (unless we can’t afford them) when they’re older, but I think that isn’t realistic. I’m trying to live in the world we have and not the one I want, because I’m worried if I don’t they won’t have practice interacting with these technologies, they’ll end up like their parents-with a phone addiction.
I absolutely hide the phone from my 11 month old for the same reason. I’m worried he’ll think I find the phone more interesting than him. And I want to model good behavior. He still nurses to sleep at night though, so for about 45 glorious minutes afterwards, I sneak the phone out and peruse the internet while he sleeps in my arms. I often will delay putting him in his crib just so I can have this precious baby cuddle/phone time. It’s the best!