Like, if I’m so busy cataloging my life online for other people, how present am I in my real life for the real people I'm actually supposed to be taking care of? I knew early on that my phone was an issue and that it was a problem because it was pulling me away from my family. I literally hid the phone from my children. Like it was a cigarette! And you know when you're hiding something? You kind of know, like, this is a problem. I didn't understand why. Now I do. Now I get what it was. But at the time, I just knew that this is not good. I don't want them to see it. I don't want them to see me with it or see my need for it.
I 100% relate to this. Back when I was a new mom of babies, I was terrified their innocent little sponge brains would be irremediably warped by seeing their beloved mother (who is supposed to be perfect) looking at a plastic/metal block instead of at their beautiful faces. And still today, as a mom of elementary school kids (plus a toddler), I’ll prop my phone on a barstool near the kitchen counter while I’m chopping broccoli to throw into the mac n’cheese or whatever, and covertly steal looks at my phone. Because I don’t want my kids to interpret my phone addiction as something about THEM and because I want to model “healthy” social media/phone habits (DO SUCH THINGS EXIST?!) And maybe because I’m ashamed that childcare bores me sometimes and I crave virtual distractions? I don’t know!
A photo of me looking at my phone as if it’s something I have complicated feelings about instead of a photo of me hiding my phone from my kids because I don’t have a photo like that!
Hence my first Let’s Discuss Thread.
Honestly, I’m pretty nervous about launching threads because I’m nervous about trying new things in general and because Motherhood with a capital M can be so polarizing for so many reasons. But I love the community we’ve built at In Pursuit of Clean Countertops, and you guys so frequently DM and email me brilliant, thought-provoking, helpful ideas, so maybe this could be great?
Let’s think of it an experiment for now, and if it’s fun and provides value, Let’s Discussion Threads will become another regular perk for paid subscribers.
For the next month, I’ll send Threads out to the whole list (free and paid), so we can figure out what works and what doesn’t together.
Guidelines for keeping this non-judgmental and fun (TWO THINGS HARD TO COME BY IN TERMS OF MOTHERHOOD)
Moms are burnt the fuck out from being told that we’re doing x, y, and z wrong. So no “shoulds” or mentions of the “best” way to be or do things.
Similarly, please avoid “right” versus “wrong” binaries.
I will delete any sort of troll-y nonsense.
Ok so tell me! Do you hide your phone from your kids (or anyone else for that matter)? Why? Why not? I’d love to know your thoughts.
First time commenter! Had to hop in here because I literally built my whole business (which I have closed) around the concept of balance with tech/phones/screens for the benefit of future generations. I folded after a decade of pushing the sisyphus boulder uphill. I was superrrrrr aware as someone who worked in tech/digital of where we were going. I personally was totally addicted and decided to leave it all and start championing for change, with my kids in mind. A decade ago people thought I was a total nutso. Happy that today "digital wellness" (bastardized and co-opted term) is mainstream that people think about it more now. But the guilt, stress, shame (just like cigarette smoking) is the worst. Also the brands using it as a marketing campaign thats really bullshit is also the worst. So I folded my cards and focused on my family because I am not sure balance IS possible while there is no regulation. Meaning, when profit is made off of triggering our dopamine, we literally can't help ourselves. So I opted out. BUTTTTTT I found some things that helped me and my usage AND my guilts. The best one was the realization that phones are tools and if I just TOLD my kids what I was doing on it - it made them aware that I wasn't passively consuming cat videos or hiding in Instagram. "I am on Amazon buying your soccer shoes" "Excuse me I am talking with all the moms on text about camp." "I'll be over here sending an email for work" "There's a podcast I will be listening to while I fold laundry". It took the mystique away and also started making me take a hard look at what I was spending my time doing. Really blows to say to the fam "i'll be stress scrolling the hellhole of doom-TWITTER-for the next hour". And surprisingly - they could say things back like "mom you are always super cranky after you've been on twitter."
Jess! Wow this is an absolute treasure chest full of golden nuggets of wisdom. THE LACK OF REGULATION plus the fact that these things are deliberately designed to be addictive YES. I've also thought a lot about simply telling my kids (when they ask why they can't have phones or use social media when their friends do or whatever) about how much existential shit my own phone and use of social media has triggered, you know? Like, being transparent about the fact that sure, phones and social media are tools but they are ALSO riddled with problems.
It's the only way I've been able to tame the beast when it comes to my 10 year old. I'm writing about it now - like - am I telling him too much? WHO KNOWS. But I think it's better for him to know WHO makes these things WHY and HOW they make their money. Like, I hate that the pandemic sent all classrooms online but with ZERO education on what these things are or how they work. Then I get into all the other hanger-on's in each that I cannot control (ads, trolls, privacy). He knows I was addicted and got super sick, lost my creativity, and more. And talking about it lets him be a mirror to me. Because I still have the unhealthy relationship. I honestly don't know anyone who's been able to fully control without fully opting out - and thats not really an answer either - at least now. He finally got a nintendo switch - first video game ever - for graduation. We have a contract, rules, and he knows all the reasons why I avoided it for so long. Mostly I can't stand how talking about video games (when can i play, can i have extra time, can i bring it with me) takes up all the air in the room. Shockingly (so far) because I was transparent he knows not to do that! And he CAME TO ME when advertisers on his iPad figured out he was a tween and starting running ads of video games with a conveyor belt with a girl cartoon having her clothes taken off. He knew it wasn't his fault and I wouldn't take it away. But if he kept secrets or his things that I would take it away. So far, so good. The honesty about myself, and the state of the digital realm as it is now, is really the only way I know how to combat it. I make him aware so maybe just maybe he will be a better consumer than I was?! ALSO I won't know til he's grown. I remember a girl at a dorm with stacks and stacks of coco-cola in her corner. When asked she replied her parents never let her have it. So I keep that in mind and try to allow when I think he's ready. As you can see I could talk about this all day long.
Ugh the fucking ad thing makes me so mad (and sad). But incredible that he came to you right away! It also requires so much time, deliberation, and energy from parents to have these conversations and keep our kids safe because LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, there is no meaningful structural support, you know? I will say - this past spring, my kids' elementary school did a program on healthy computer/internet usage so I guess that's something?
Phones definitely interfere with connection in our family—my toddlers both used to hit it out of my hand. So now I have a flip phone, because I have ADD and the thing designed to be addictive is addictive to me.
But can we talk about the intersection with loneliness?? This pandemic was brutal for parents! I needed those frequent midday texts and even the articles that let me say “me too!”
100%! I will say - I don't find texting with friends to be an issue? Like, my text threads are CRITICAL to my self-care - I would feel totally unmoored without them. And they don't feel addictive or mindless (like scrolling can) so I put them in a totally different category. In my own head at least!
Sorry, I swear I replied to this but apparently only in my head. JUST DO IT. You can transfer your sim card over, and if it doesn't work for you, just switch it back! You'd be out like $100--or you'd have a phone that worked for you on weekdays, and you'd switch back to the fancy phone on weekends or for road trips or whatever.
It's interesting how often I'm reaching for stimulation. I've gotten better at meeting my own needs thanks to recognizing when I have an unmet need--and then more closely examining what that need is. Connection? Intellectual stimulation? Dopamine hit? All of those are valid needs and none of them are truly met by my smart phone.
My work involves a lot of “research” on Twitter so I find myself scrolling at breakfast before work and in the afternoon at the playground, but in all honesty I don’t feel that guilty. I’m my daughter’s sole financial provider and the only way I can balance also being as present as I want to be is to sometimes be balancing that with a little work on the side, otherwise I would have to work at night when she’s asleep and I guard that time for reading and other things non-electronic. When I thought about becoming a mother I always wanted to show her my work (maybe because it means a lot to me?) so I’m not really ashamed about my phone use in front of her. I can only imagine things will become immensely more complicated when she’s old enough for her own phone or social media…
I struggle with this too. My oldest is turning 11 next week and since I know that her no-phone years are limited, it's feeling especially important to start doing better with phone boundaries. I am not setting a good example by any stretch in terms of phone addiction. But, this is something I say in the abstract but have yet to actually start working on...
This is *so* relatable. I am in month 10 of breastfeeding my second, and I definitely find myself scrolling behind his head, thinking I'm hiding from him. The little sucker usually knows. It really cracks me up when he goes blindly shopping around with his free arm. He's got great aim and always swipes something inconvenient on my screen 😆.
I also find myself hiding from my partner. A regular example is when I go to fold laundry on the bed after the kids go down. My partner will be doing the dishes. Almost every night, instead of starting my task, I get caught up on my phone and just veg out. If I hear my partner coming, it wakes me from my trance and I immediately start back to my goal. It's like this guilty break I'm taking. He wouldn't care, but I care about being perceived as a slacker because I'm not contributing while he is working. Of course, he does the same thing in the kitchen...he will veg out and eat the rest of whatever was left from dinner, and he moves perpetually slow at cleanup anyway, so i'm not sure why I feel the need to hide!
But I also care because I *desperately* want to finish my chore and do something intentional with my time. I have an overdue library book I want to finish. I have sewing projects. I could just enjoy silence and total relaxation or a bath. These things are more restful or restorative than the activity I am actually spending my time on, but I keep falling into that same pattern.
Ugh yeah this is the tough part! Vegging out in any capacity is absolutely glorious and necessary and I am so anti-shame in this regard. But your point about when one kind of vegging overtakes other forms of vegging (or relaxing, recharging, resting) - it gets so tricky.
Not about the phone, but about how kids make us see things differently. I grew up with the TV on as background noise, and carried that into my adult life. I often turned the TV on while I read the paper, if I was eating alone, etc. My husband was never a TV watcher as an adult, and we never has a TV in the bedroom. When my daughter was a toddler, I remember putting her in the exersaucer while the TV was on and I was at the dining room table reading the paper. I vaguely was aware of a "bounce bounce pause" noise and looked up. My daughter was playing happily in her exersaucer until she caught sight of the TV. She'd pause to watch it, snap out of it within 20 seconds and play until she was distracted again by the moving pictures and noise. I thought "she doesn't need the distraction and neither do I". Turned the TV off and never turned it on as background noise again. My kids got plenty of TV time, but it was all chosen, not passive. So I guess I 'hid' that you could have TV on all the time from my kids. (Also, my daughter promptly turned off the TV when the show she was watching was over, as opposed to remaining glued to the TV. I almost told her she could leave it on, and again, thought "she doesn't need it". She taught me two good lessons before age 3, lol).
Oh man, I definitely also made my life so much harder as a first time mom thinking I wasn’t allowed to look at my phone while breastfeeding or bottle feeding (both of which were a clusterfuck for unrelated reasons but maybe I could have been more relaxed about it if I had let myself off this one hook?).
I def lowered my standards by the second kid, to the point that sometimes during bedtime, when she wanted to stall, she would say “mama keep looking at your phone” bc it was giving her more time to play. 😂
SO. TL/DR, I am always working to find a middle ground on this, and generally failing. I do look for activities (swimming, gardening, etc) that force me to put the phone down to be present. They also DAILY see me idly scrolling when I suppose I could be more present? Idk.
Yeah I'm curious if first-time parents are as TERRIFIED as we apparently were as first-timers about the whole phones plus babies thing? Like, what was happening? When pregnant with my first kid I was also totally in Dr. Sears' pocket and I don't think that fact is unrelated to the phone fear....
I had a baby in 2021 and 100% was terrified of not connecting to my baby by having my phone up while I was BF all night. I thought my Kindle was a “safer” option, so I made myself nuts reading parenting books -- all the shoulds. Looking back, I would have been better off mindlessly watching a show or watching Insta stories. I’m pregnant again, and am determined to let myself off the hook this time. No one is watching and I will bond with my baby.
Oh man the parenting books!! I feel PTSD symptoms creeping in just imagining my older self living and dying by whatever "should" whatever parenting book was selling me at the time.
Oh interesting! When my kids were nursing, I was like, "This is my phone's time to shine!" because I was so tired and the baby was focused on a singular goal and who cared where my attention was at (although I did once get into an argument with my partner when my first child was a baby about being on my phone while nursing -- he was worried about the brain cancer/phone thing, and I switched to TV for maybe a week before returning to the phone), but as soon as they were old enough to realize how fun a phone could be, I started feeling extraordinarily self conscious about my addiction.
I definitely want to model healthier habits and almost always say I'm reading the newspaper on my phone which is true about 30% of the time. I wonder about the problem of how we've let go of a lot of print media (as a kid, my house received multiple newspapers and magazines each day [yes, a super privilege], as an adult, we pay for a few online subscriptions/get a bunch through work and receive only one magazine in print), and now I do a lot of my reading on my phone.
Yesssss - like if I'm reading a physical magazine or physical book I'm modeling "healthy" literacy habits, but if I'm reading that same article or book on a phone, it's like I have to be super deliberate about what I'm doing to get the "healthy literacy points" or whatever. Also great point about newborns versus kids "old enough to realize how fun a phone could be." With my third kid (when I was nice and jaded), I survived his newborn-hood solely thanks to podcasts! Having a visceral memory of me spending a fucking hour bouncing or jostling him to sleep in a dark hole of sound machines listening to You Must Remember This and feeling earnest gratitude that podcasts were a thing.
I’m really feeling this “healthy literacy” discussion. It’s something my husband and I talk about often. We both read a lot of e-books on our iPads or iPhones. When our daughter is a bit older--she’s 7 months now--we’d like her to see us reading books. But we don’t want to performatively shout, “I’m looking at my phone, but I’m reading a BOOK.” Do we switch to a dedicated e-reader? Go back to physical books in the main? Stop worrying about it? Idk.
Same! I read so much more if I read e-books on my iphone... but now I'm like do I switch to an e-reader? I love physical books, but I just haven't found them as feasible since having a kid - but maybe that's just in my head?
Yes! In fact, it feels entirely reasonable to ignore my children with a book in my hand. And I have a hard time imagining being criticized if I were sitting outside with a book while my kids ran wild. Yet the phone thing is just so much harder!
I will note that because my 5 year old does not yet read, she's also obsessed with storytime podcasts, and that is the currently 'permissible' relationship with my phone. And I'm 'allowed' (as in, I give myself permission and feel no guilt) to listen to podcasts while I cook and fold laundry because I'm not looking at the screen. Somehow actively disengaging with the world around me seems to be part of the problem? I admit that this guilt is entirely self-inflicted that I'm unpacking as I type (insert face-palm emoji here).
I have a huge amount of guilt related to the presence of my phone. I’ve deleted social media, so that isn’t my issue. My biggest struggle is checking my work email/channels. During the early pandemic, I was working from home with a two year old and terrified that I wasn’t appearing to work hard enough so got into a habit of jumping on emails the second they came in. (My husband had to work in person from pretty early in) Now, my oldest is 4 and we also have a 16 month old, and our daycare/preschool shuts down classes for quarantine constantly (for good reason!) and I have to take leave from work where again I’m supposed to manage childcare while working… the obsessive email checking is still there, even though I resent myself for it and realize it’s a self-imposed absurdity to try and present myself as a fully present mother and employee.
Ugh the terror of not looking like you weren't working hard enough! I hate this for you! The cult of productivity sucks (as does the continued lack of support for parents of young children!!!!!)
I do and I also don’t. I want to be more present with the kids and for spaces of time I manage it, I’m generally happier. But I’m wondering if that’s a correlation doesn’t imply causation situation. That is to say, whatever is making me feel less in need of whichever stimulation I’m getting from my phone is also what’s enabling me to be more patient and relaxed and enjoy time with them. Or, say, have support of another adult (ex. weekly 25 hr phone-free Shabbes when my partner isn’t working for pay).
When I do have it out, it often morphs into something the toddler and I do together (FT family, watch home videos/look at photos on my camera roll).
While they’re so young (oldest is under 3) this status quo feels good for me-mostly. I still fantasize that I can just put down my phone and that it’ll be possible to keep from getting them smartphones (unless we can’t afford them) when they’re older, but I think that isn’t realistic. I’m trying to live in the world we have and not the one I want, because I’m worried if I don’t they won’t have practice interacting with these technologies, they’ll end up like their parents-with a phone addiction.
I absolutely hide the phone from my 11 month old for the same reason. I’m worried he’ll think I find the phone more interesting than him. And I want to model good behavior. He still nurses to sleep at night though, so for about 45 glorious minutes afterwards, I sneak the phone out and peruse the internet while he sleeps in my arms. I often will delay putting him in his crib just so I can have this precious baby cuddle/phone time. It’s the best!
Right? It's so hard. I interviewed the brilliant Pooja Lakshmin about active self-care versus passive self-care for Momfluenced and she had so much wisdom about what constitutes regenerative rest and what doesn't. I can't wait to read her book once it's out! (I linked to her website below for a blurb about the book).
First time commenter! Had to hop in here because I literally built my whole business (which I have closed) around the concept of balance with tech/phones/screens for the benefit of future generations. I folded after a decade of pushing the sisyphus boulder uphill. I was superrrrrr aware as someone who worked in tech/digital of where we were going. I personally was totally addicted and decided to leave it all and start championing for change, with my kids in mind. A decade ago people thought I was a total nutso. Happy that today "digital wellness" (bastardized and co-opted term) is mainstream that people think about it more now. But the guilt, stress, shame (just like cigarette smoking) is the worst. Also the brands using it as a marketing campaign thats really bullshit is also the worst. So I folded my cards and focused on my family because I am not sure balance IS possible while there is no regulation. Meaning, when profit is made off of triggering our dopamine, we literally can't help ourselves. So I opted out. BUTTTTTT I found some things that helped me and my usage AND my guilts. The best one was the realization that phones are tools and if I just TOLD my kids what I was doing on it - it made them aware that I wasn't passively consuming cat videos or hiding in Instagram. "I am on Amazon buying your soccer shoes" "Excuse me I am talking with all the moms on text about camp." "I'll be over here sending an email for work" "There's a podcast I will be listening to while I fold laundry". It took the mystique away and also started making me take a hard look at what I was spending my time doing. Really blows to say to the fam "i'll be stress scrolling the hellhole of doom-TWITTER-for the next hour". And surprisingly - they could say things back like "mom you are always super cranky after you've been on twitter."
Also - hi Sara - can't wait for your book!
Jess! Wow this is an absolute treasure chest full of golden nuggets of wisdom. THE LACK OF REGULATION plus the fact that these things are deliberately designed to be addictive YES. I've also thought a lot about simply telling my kids (when they ask why they can't have phones or use social media when their friends do or whatever) about how much existential shit my own phone and use of social media has triggered, you know? Like, being transparent about the fact that sure, phones and social media are tools but they are ALSO riddled with problems.
It's the only way I've been able to tame the beast when it comes to my 10 year old. I'm writing about it now - like - am I telling him too much? WHO KNOWS. But I think it's better for him to know WHO makes these things WHY and HOW they make their money. Like, I hate that the pandemic sent all classrooms online but with ZERO education on what these things are or how they work. Then I get into all the other hanger-on's in each that I cannot control (ads, trolls, privacy). He knows I was addicted and got super sick, lost my creativity, and more. And talking about it lets him be a mirror to me. Because I still have the unhealthy relationship. I honestly don't know anyone who's been able to fully control without fully opting out - and thats not really an answer either - at least now. He finally got a nintendo switch - first video game ever - for graduation. We have a contract, rules, and he knows all the reasons why I avoided it for so long. Mostly I can't stand how talking about video games (when can i play, can i have extra time, can i bring it with me) takes up all the air in the room. Shockingly (so far) because I was transparent he knows not to do that! And he CAME TO ME when advertisers on his iPad figured out he was a tween and starting running ads of video games with a conveyor belt with a girl cartoon having her clothes taken off. He knew it wasn't his fault and I wouldn't take it away. But if he kept secrets or his things that I would take it away. So far, so good. The honesty about myself, and the state of the digital realm as it is now, is really the only way I know how to combat it. I make him aware so maybe just maybe he will be a better consumer than I was?! ALSO I won't know til he's grown. I remember a girl at a dorm with stacks and stacks of coco-cola in her corner. When asked she replied her parents never let her have it. So I keep that in mind and try to allow when I think he's ready. As you can see I could talk about this all day long.
Ugh the fucking ad thing makes me so mad (and sad). But incredible that he came to you right away! It also requires so much time, deliberation, and energy from parents to have these conversations and keep our kids safe because LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, there is no meaningful structural support, you know? I will say - this past spring, my kids' elementary school did a program on healthy computer/internet usage so I guess that's something?
SAD/MAD all the time. YES- it's like whack-a-mole! Totally exhausting. But good to hear that about your kiddos school -that makes me hopeful!
I would like to read a whole book of your insights, please.
Right?!
Thank you for the motivation! <3
Phones definitely interfere with connection in our family—my toddlers both used to hit it out of my hand. So now I have a flip phone, because I have ADD and the thing designed to be addictive is addictive to me.
But can we talk about the intersection with loneliness?? This pandemic was brutal for parents! I needed those frequent midday texts and even the articles that let me say “me too!”
100%! I will say - I don't find texting with friends to be an issue? Like, my text threads are CRITICAL to my self-care - I would feel totally unmoored without them. And they don't feel addictive or mindless (like scrolling can) so I put them in a totally different category. In my own head at least!
Bea, how’s the switch been to a flip phone?! I think about doing it all the time but need a push to make the jump!
Sorry, I swear I replied to this but apparently only in my head. JUST DO IT. You can transfer your sim card over, and if it doesn't work for you, just switch it back! You'd be out like $100--or you'd have a phone that worked for you on weekdays, and you'd switch back to the fancy phone on weekends or for road trips or whatever.
It's interesting how often I'm reaching for stimulation. I've gotten better at meeting my own needs thanks to recognizing when I have an unmet need--and then more closely examining what that need is. Connection? Intellectual stimulation? Dopamine hit? All of those are valid needs and none of them are truly met by my smart phone.
THIS IS EVERYTHING, thank you!!!
My work involves a lot of “research” on Twitter so I find myself scrolling at breakfast before work and in the afternoon at the playground, but in all honesty I don’t feel that guilty. I’m my daughter’s sole financial provider and the only way I can balance also being as present as I want to be is to sometimes be balancing that with a little work on the side, otherwise I would have to work at night when she’s asleep and I guard that time for reading and other things non-electronic. When I thought about becoming a mother I always wanted to show her my work (maybe because it means a lot to me?) so I’m not really ashamed about my phone use in front of her. I can only imagine things will become immensely more complicated when she’s old enough for her own phone or social media…
Yeah I have a very strong "fuck shame" stance on this topic!
I struggle with this too. My oldest is turning 11 next week and since I know that her no-phone years are limited, it's feeling especially important to start doing better with phone boundaries. I am not setting a good example by any stretch in terms of phone addiction. But, this is something I say in the abstract but have yet to actually start working on...
This is *so* relatable. I am in month 10 of breastfeeding my second, and I definitely find myself scrolling behind his head, thinking I'm hiding from him. The little sucker usually knows. It really cracks me up when he goes blindly shopping around with his free arm. He's got great aim and always swipes something inconvenient on my screen 😆.
I also find myself hiding from my partner. A regular example is when I go to fold laundry on the bed after the kids go down. My partner will be doing the dishes. Almost every night, instead of starting my task, I get caught up on my phone and just veg out. If I hear my partner coming, it wakes me from my trance and I immediately start back to my goal. It's like this guilty break I'm taking. He wouldn't care, but I care about being perceived as a slacker because I'm not contributing while he is working. Of course, he does the same thing in the kitchen...he will veg out and eat the rest of whatever was left from dinner, and he moves perpetually slow at cleanup anyway, so i'm not sure why I feel the need to hide!
But I also care because I *desperately* want to finish my chore and do something intentional with my time. I have an overdue library book I want to finish. I have sewing projects. I could just enjoy silence and total relaxation or a bath. These things are more restful or restorative than the activity I am actually spending my time on, but I keep falling into that same pattern.
Ugh yeah this is the tough part! Vegging out in any capacity is absolutely glorious and necessary and I am so anti-shame in this regard. But your point about when one kind of vegging overtakes other forms of vegging (or relaxing, recharging, resting) - it gets so tricky.
Not about the phone, but about how kids make us see things differently. I grew up with the TV on as background noise, and carried that into my adult life. I often turned the TV on while I read the paper, if I was eating alone, etc. My husband was never a TV watcher as an adult, and we never has a TV in the bedroom. When my daughter was a toddler, I remember putting her in the exersaucer while the TV was on and I was at the dining room table reading the paper. I vaguely was aware of a "bounce bounce pause" noise and looked up. My daughter was playing happily in her exersaucer until she caught sight of the TV. She'd pause to watch it, snap out of it within 20 seconds and play until she was distracted again by the moving pictures and noise. I thought "she doesn't need the distraction and neither do I". Turned the TV off and never turned it on as background noise again. My kids got plenty of TV time, but it was all chosen, not passive. So I guess I 'hid' that you could have TV on all the time from my kids. (Also, my daughter promptly turned off the TV when the show she was watching was over, as opposed to remaining glued to the TV. I almost told her she could leave it on, and again, thought "she doesn't need it". She taught me two good lessons before age 3, lol).
Oh man, I definitely also made my life so much harder as a first time mom thinking I wasn’t allowed to look at my phone while breastfeeding or bottle feeding (both of which were a clusterfuck for unrelated reasons but maybe I could have been more relaxed about it if I had let myself off this one hook?).
I def lowered my standards by the second kid, to the point that sometimes during bedtime, when she wanted to stall, she would say “mama keep looking at your phone” bc it was giving her more time to play. 😂
SO. TL/DR, I am always working to find a middle ground on this, and generally failing. I do look for activities (swimming, gardening, etc) that force me to put the phone down to be present. They also DAILY see me idly scrolling when I suppose I could be more present? Idk.
Yeah I'm curious if first-time parents are as TERRIFIED as we apparently were as first-timers about the whole phones plus babies thing? Like, what was happening? When pregnant with my first kid I was also totally in Dr. Sears' pocket and I don't think that fact is unrelated to the phone fear....
I had a baby in 2021 and 100% was terrified of not connecting to my baby by having my phone up while I was BF all night. I thought my Kindle was a “safer” option, so I made myself nuts reading parenting books -- all the shoulds. Looking back, I would have been better off mindlessly watching a show or watching Insta stories. I’m pregnant again, and am determined to let myself off the hook this time. No one is watching and I will bond with my baby.
Oh man the parenting books!! I feel PTSD symptoms creeping in just imagining my older self living and dying by whatever "should" whatever parenting book was selling me at the time.
Oh interesting! When my kids were nursing, I was like, "This is my phone's time to shine!" because I was so tired and the baby was focused on a singular goal and who cared where my attention was at (although I did once get into an argument with my partner when my first child was a baby about being on my phone while nursing -- he was worried about the brain cancer/phone thing, and I switched to TV for maybe a week before returning to the phone), but as soon as they were old enough to realize how fun a phone could be, I started feeling extraordinarily self conscious about my addiction.
I definitely want to model healthier habits and almost always say I'm reading the newspaper on my phone which is true about 30% of the time. I wonder about the problem of how we've let go of a lot of print media (as a kid, my house received multiple newspapers and magazines each day [yes, a super privilege], as an adult, we pay for a few online subscriptions/get a bunch through work and receive only one magazine in print), and now I do a lot of my reading on my phone.
Yesssss - like if I'm reading a physical magazine or physical book I'm modeling "healthy" literacy habits, but if I'm reading that same article or book on a phone, it's like I have to be super deliberate about what I'm doing to get the "healthy literacy points" or whatever. Also great point about newborns versus kids "old enough to realize how fun a phone could be." With my third kid (when I was nice and jaded), I survived his newborn-hood solely thanks to podcasts! Having a visceral memory of me spending a fucking hour bouncing or jostling him to sleep in a dark hole of sound machines listening to You Must Remember This and feeling earnest gratitude that podcasts were a thing.
I’m really feeling this “healthy literacy” discussion. It’s something my husband and I talk about often. We both read a lot of e-books on our iPads or iPhones. When our daughter is a bit older--she’s 7 months now--we’d like her to see us reading books. But we don’t want to performatively shout, “I’m looking at my phone, but I’m reading a BOOK.” Do we switch to a dedicated e-reader? Go back to physical books in the main? Stop worrying about it? Idk.
Same! I read so much more if I read e-books on my iphone... but now I'm like do I switch to an e-reader? I love physical books, but I just haven't found them as feasible since having a kid - but maybe that's just in my head?
Podcasts and audiobooks are a lifesaver for those MOTN moments. My number one rec for a new mom is wireless earbuds.
Brilliant.
Yes! In fact, it feels entirely reasonable to ignore my children with a book in my hand. And I have a hard time imagining being criticized if I were sitting outside with a book while my kids ran wild. Yet the phone thing is just so much harder!
I will note that because my 5 year old does not yet read, she's also obsessed with storytime podcasts, and that is the currently 'permissible' relationship with my phone. And I'm 'allowed' (as in, I give myself permission and feel no guilt) to listen to podcasts while I cook and fold laundry because I'm not looking at the screen. Somehow actively disengaging with the world around me seems to be part of the problem? I admit that this guilt is entirely self-inflicted that I'm unpacking as I type (insert face-palm emoji here).
I have a huge amount of guilt related to the presence of my phone. I’ve deleted social media, so that isn’t my issue. My biggest struggle is checking my work email/channels. During the early pandemic, I was working from home with a two year old and terrified that I wasn’t appearing to work hard enough so got into a habit of jumping on emails the second they came in. (My husband had to work in person from pretty early in) Now, my oldest is 4 and we also have a 16 month old, and our daycare/preschool shuts down classes for quarantine constantly (for good reason!) and I have to take leave from work where again I’m supposed to manage childcare while working… the obsessive email checking is still there, even though I resent myself for it and realize it’s a self-imposed absurdity to try and present myself as a fully present mother and employee.
Ugh the terror of not looking like you weren't working hard enough! I hate this for you! The cult of productivity sucks (as does the continued lack of support for parents of young children!!!!!)
I do and I also don’t. I want to be more present with the kids and for spaces of time I manage it, I’m generally happier. But I’m wondering if that’s a correlation doesn’t imply causation situation. That is to say, whatever is making me feel less in need of whichever stimulation I’m getting from my phone is also what’s enabling me to be more patient and relaxed and enjoy time with them. Or, say, have support of another adult (ex. weekly 25 hr phone-free Shabbes when my partner isn’t working for pay).
When I do have it out, it often morphs into something the toddler and I do together (FT family, watch home videos/look at photos on my camera roll).
While they’re so young (oldest is under 3) this status quo feels good for me-mostly. I still fantasize that I can just put down my phone and that it’ll be possible to keep from getting them smartphones (unless we can’t afford them) when they’re older, but I think that isn’t realistic. I’m trying to live in the world we have and not the one I want, because I’m worried if I don’t they won’t have practice interacting with these technologies, they’ll end up like their parents-with a phone addiction.
Great points! Reminds me of kids who live for Cheetos or whatever because Cheetos are strictly banned at home.
I absolutely hide the phone from my 11 month old for the same reason. I’m worried he’ll think I find the phone more interesting than him. And I want to model good behavior. He still nurses to sleep at night though, so for about 45 glorious minutes afterwards, I sneak the phone out and peruse the internet while he sleeps in my arms. I often will delay putting him in his crib just so I can have this precious baby cuddle/phone time. It’s the best!
Right? It's so hard. I interviewed the brilliant Pooja Lakshmin about active self-care versus passive self-care for Momfluenced and she had so much wisdom about what constitutes regenerative rest and what doesn't. I can't wait to read her book once it's out! (I linked to her website below for a blurb about the book).
https://www.poojalakshmin.com/book
Y E S (writing about a heinous period of school lock down right nowwwwww)