I'm really fascinated by the idea that girlhood is more expansive than womanhood and it's easier to be yourself. I feel the opposite and I wonder how much the difference is related to whether someone is a mother and in a heterosexual relationship. You guys talked about how women are defined by their relationship to others, and if you're in those roles with strong social expectations it makes sense that you would feel limited by them. Whereas I'm over here feeling like I can do and be whoever I want now that I'm an adult and not under the control of parents, teachers, etc. As a girl i felt trapped by strict rules and didn't know it was okay if i broke them, (will anyone ever love me if I don't shave my armpits?) but as an adult I know i can do what i want and the judgement of others doesn't really matter. My wife has no expectations for who I'll be and I'm not defined by my relationship to her because there isn't any dominant social narrative for how lesbian marriages should go.
This is SUCH a great point - and I have to say, as much as I felt a certain freedom of identity as a girl, my adolescence was a different ball game. I love being 42 and not crumbling into agony over a zit and not caring about how I present to the world (most of the time) re appearance.
maybe there's a generational difference as well then? I'm not sure how robustly this analysis holds up but I've seen people say that gen z and gen a girls became aware of the pressures of adolescence earlier due to social media. I know I started worrying about whether I was pretty enough before I hit puberty, and that was back when social media meant MySpace.
Ughhhhh yes totally. This conversation is making me wonder when I lost my little girl bravada you know? I feel like I was pretty untouchable until, like, age 10 or so? I'm sure I was aware of prettiness and everything but I distinctly remember a full body confidence prior to ..... everything!
I'm a baby Gen-X so I'm a few years older than you guys but I hate watched SBTB every day on TBS after school with my friends and I so wish we could go back and give Jesse Spano and Lisa Turtle the respect they deserved. Poor Lisa, beautiful, popular and rich and constantly gaslit for not reciprocating gross-ass Screech's obsession with her.
Oh yeah, stalked her, spied on her, ran off her love interests. And it was all portrayed like he was an adorable lovesick imp and she was a snobby bitch. Eesh.
I have Kate's book on my little window sill waiting to be read this weekend and this was such a lovely preview -- I will discuss and read about ~feminist anger~ any day of the week! x
This was so wonderful! The specificity of these references is making me so nostalgic: Damien Rice, Clinique Happy, Jessie Spano! Amazing. And as someone who also still gets crap at times about being all in on Taylor Swift, I was glad to see that mentioned as well. My 4 year old daughter’s favorite album is Red already, and she’s starting to like 1989: Taylor’s Version as well. Trying to introduce her to all the classics early like my mom did with the Footloose soundtrack when I was 4. My daughter also loves The Carpenters too though which is music my dad and I loved.
My two faves in one article?! I am devouring but also slowlyyy digesting Kates book and already know I’ll be immediately rereading and gifting to everyone millennial woman in my life. Such a gem!
So many great things in this article, but I just have to say that I loved Jessie Spano! I knew that she wasn’t the perfect one like Kelly, but I really admired her ambition and drive, and I kind of knew Slater was a jerk anyway. I never went through a phase where I didn’t want to identify as a feminist (though I did hedge it by disclaiming that I wasn’t a feminazi). Maybe it’s because I knew I was never going to be that perfect girl that all the guys wanted like Kelly—so Jessie became an acceptable role model to aspire to.
I'm really fascinated by the idea that girlhood is more expansive than womanhood and it's easier to be yourself. I feel the opposite and I wonder how much the difference is related to whether someone is a mother and in a heterosexual relationship. You guys talked about how women are defined by their relationship to others, and if you're in those roles with strong social expectations it makes sense that you would feel limited by them. Whereas I'm over here feeling like I can do and be whoever I want now that I'm an adult and not under the control of parents, teachers, etc. As a girl i felt trapped by strict rules and didn't know it was okay if i broke them, (will anyone ever love me if I don't shave my armpits?) but as an adult I know i can do what i want and the judgement of others doesn't really matter. My wife has no expectations for who I'll be and I'm not defined by my relationship to her because there isn't any dominant social narrative for how lesbian marriages should go.
This is SUCH a great point - and I have to say, as much as I felt a certain freedom of identity as a girl, my adolescence was a different ball game. I love being 42 and not crumbling into agony over a zit and not caring about how I present to the world (most of the time) re appearance.
maybe there's a generational difference as well then? I'm not sure how robustly this analysis holds up but I've seen people say that gen z and gen a girls became aware of the pressures of adolescence earlier due to social media. I know I started worrying about whether I was pretty enough before I hit puberty, and that was back when social media meant MySpace.
Ughhhhh yes totally. This conversation is making me wonder when I lost my little girl bravada you know? I feel like I was pretty untouchable until, like, age 10 or so? I'm sure I was aware of prettiness and everything but I distinctly remember a full body confidence prior to ..... everything!
I'm a baby Gen-X so I'm a few years older than you guys but I hate watched SBTB every day on TBS after school with my friends and I so wish we could go back and give Jesse Spano and Lisa Turtle the respect they deserved. Poor Lisa, beautiful, popular and rich and constantly gaslit for not reciprocating gross-ass Screech's obsession with her.
omggggggg haven't even thought about THAT bullshit - like he actively stalked her if I recall correctly?!
Oh yeah, stalked her, spied on her, ran off her love interests. And it was all portrayed like he was an adorable lovesick imp and she was a snobby bitch. Eesh.
I have a lot to say about SBTB obviously đŸ˜†
YUCK YUCK YUCK. If you ever write a screed I'm here for it.
I have Kate's book on my little window sill waiting to be read this weekend and this was such a lovely preview -- I will discuss and read about ~feminist anger~ any day of the week! x
It's such a delight!
This was so wonderful! The specificity of these references is making me so nostalgic: Damien Rice, Clinique Happy, Jessie Spano! Amazing. And as someone who also still gets crap at times about being all in on Taylor Swift, I was glad to see that mentioned as well. My 4 year old daughter’s favorite album is Red already, and she’s starting to like 1989: Taylor’s Version as well. Trying to introduce her to all the classics early like my mom did with the Footloose soundtrack when I was 4. My daughter also loves The Carpenters too though which is music my dad and I loved.
My two faves in one article?! I am devouring but also slowlyyy digesting Kates book and already know I’ll be immediately rereading and gifting to everyone millennial woman in my life. Such a gem!
lol kate's THE BEST
So many great things in this article, but I just have to say that I loved Jessie Spano! I knew that she wasn’t the perfect one like Kelly, but I really admired her ambition and drive, and I kind of knew Slater was a jerk anyway. I never went through a phase where I didn’t want to identify as a feminist (though I did hedge it by disclaiming that I wasn’t a feminazi). Maybe it’s because I knew I was never going to be that perfect girl that all the guys wanted like Kelly—so Jessie became an acceptable role model to aspire to.
That is so great!